Fitness/Nutrition/Weight gain and loss Options

[NeoCzar]

I've been involved in this sphere from a young age, and second to forensic medicine, sports physiology was a major aspect of medical school I actually delved quite deep into out of personal interest. This bloomed into importing and trading in anabolic steroids (which I've never used myself, not because of any medical or ethical reasons, but because I hadn't reached the weight training threshold to warrant them) before they introduced stricter laws to control them in the UAE.

So at the age of 21-22 I weighed about 75 kgs (11.8 stone) at a 180 cm height, and worked out 4 days a week diligently. After getting into a relationship and getting busied with the latter years of med school, not to mention WoW and an online addiction, I ballooned from 75 kgs to about 125kgs (19.6 stones) on the span of a couple of years, which was quite unnatural considering how my body type is actually buff slim mesomorph, and not someone who is what they call "big boned" from childhood.

So the past year and a half, I've started a VLCD (Very Low Calorie Diet) regimen, which basically means I ate a small salad every 2 days as the only solid food, and just fluids like juice and water, in addition to a multi mineral and vitamin supplement, and I've managed to get back to about 78kgs these past 6 months, without an iota of exercise.

The quality of the physique is radically different from my previous "fit" state of course, because a lot of that weight in 2004-5 was muscle, as opposed to now, but my previous experience with weight training and finding out what works for my body will assist me greatly in regaining the shape I want.

I figured I'm 27 and not many years before the real damage of losing hair and testosterone levels starts setting in irreversibly, so might as well have one last fit phase

Talk about your stories or ask questions if you want, it's a medical issue to me so I'd love to assist.

[Rip]

I'm in pretty much the same situation.

Late teens I was about 11-12 stone but I was physically active and used to go to the gym, swimming, skateboarding and playing rugby for an under 21 team.

Then I met the love interest that was WoW. Next thing I knew the muscle was gone, I crept up to 13 stone, 15 stone and eventually landing at 20 stone.



Recently though I bought myself a 16kg kettlebell (pic) to get back into weight training. I have been doing 15 minutes every other day (the recomended time) focusing on kettlebell swings, squats, rows and figure 8s to get the hamstrings, quads, lats and core back into shape before cracking out my old weights to work the upper body.

I did consider going on a liquid diet pretty much the same as yours but upon going past one of those stores that stocks millions of different types of mixes I was completely overwhelmed and realised I had no idea what the hell I needed.

For me the reality of being in the "obese" category as a father coupled with the fact that I was born with one working kidney (which I was led to believe was a duplex kidney until I was in hospital last year) makes me want to take care of my body like I used to. It's a shame that getting rid of the weight isn't half as easy as sitting on your arse putting it on

[NeoCzar]

Well I don't use any mixes. I just don't eat. The multi vitamin pills can be found at any pharmacy and are all more or less the same.

A VLCD is not healthy by any stretch of imagination. I only eat when I literally feel like my brain functions are being affected (lethargy, irritability, headache ..etc). The trick with weight loss (and I am a success story, I will post before-after pictures soon) is more psychological than anything else.

Basically, when you're 5kgs overweight, yeah, pump up the salads and skip the bi-weekly mcdonalds and take the stairs to the 2nd floor instead of the elevator, and it's done. But when you literally have to lose HALF your weight, that approach will devastate you psychologically, because you just can't keep it up when you see little or no change on the scale.

Going starvation route, means that on most days, you'll see a drop of 500-800 grams every single day, so that keeps you motivated, when you see progress.

The process is simply keto-acidosis. Tons of fatty cells are stored in your adipose tissue as preparation for starvation (evolution at work here), and the only way you can quickly tap into that reserve -it follows by simple logic- is to starve. When your body has no carbs or sugars, the latter being the exclusive food for your nervous system, the body starts transforming the fat into carbs and sugars through a complex and quite inefficient process called keto-acidosis, and your sweat/urine starts smelling funny after a day of not eating (ketone bodies as a by product being secreted by your eccrine and apocrine glands, sweat basically).

As time passes by and you reach a weight you're comfortable with, you can steadily increase your food intake, along with exercise, which works wonders because your body has been in a catabolic (destructive) state for so long, it yearns for anabolism (building) so your muscles would grow at a scary rate once you start weight-training. I started doing simple push-ups a couple of weeks ago (used to be able to do 20 with one hand, like in the Rocky movie ) and my triceps look like they did after 3 months of strenuous weight-training back in the day.

As bad as the VLCD is, I would take it over that Atkin's diet any day, and I could talk about why that diet is shit if you want.

[Sandrock]

Ehh. I've been pretty skinny in my teens, I didn't do much sports. When I was about 18-19 I started doing no weights training schedule of sandeep from the comfort of my own home: http://www.sivamdesign.com/home/fitness/no_wgts.html
Following that I do irregular workouts with weights now when I can be bothered to do it to sort of keep a mediocre shape up. I'm not really skinny anymore though I'm not extremely buff either

For some reason though I hardly gain any weight, like years ago when I worked at McDonalds for some months I got 50% discount on all food there. So I would stuff my face with milkshakes/yoghurt stuff in the morning, a whole large meal + nuggets during lunch, and some more burgers after work, then have dinner at home too. I did this for about 2 months yet I was still 80KG O.o (189CM)

[Heisenberg]

I've lost nearly 3 stone over the last 3 months, purely from not drinking coke, eating chocolate and not ordering takeaways. It was much easier than I expected... now I have the problem of needing to buy nearly all new clothes...

[Zarf]

I was on a VLCD last spring, took about 3 months to go from 100KG to 80KG. I then started a gym routine and was maintaining the weight whilst eating more normally (1500-2000 cals, but lower carbs than before). For reference I'm 181cm tall.
After a couple of months I went travelling, didn't have much opportunity to exercise and ate and drank whatever I liked so I put on around 5KG in a month. Didn't resume a gym schedule when I got back.
When I returned to uni I was back on my old eating habits (fried food for breakfast, take-outs at least twice a week, irregular meal + sleeping times, drinking) and I've stabilised at 95KG.

Most important thing I took away was that if you want to maintain weight after a VLCD you need to exercise regularly (3-4 times a week) and keep eating fairly healthily. Cutting back on alcohol is pretty important too.

I'm planning to start a VLCD again once my relatives leave and I'd feel less of a killjoy not being able to drink with them or order properly at restaurants. In a couple of months I'll go back on the exercise regime, I've no major holidays planned to interrupt it this time so should be able to maintain.

The VLCD itself was surprisingly easy to maintain after the initial few days, no real hunger or fatigue issues, I'm not too bothered about going back on it. The exercise however i'm not looking forward too, never really got the "buzz" that gym-rats refer too.

This post has been edited by Zarf: Jul 19 2010, 09:50 AM

[Kamper]

Long story short I went to Uni, ate badly, slept badly and exercised poorly. Finished the year with this stats 6ft1 95kg.

Bench - 45kg
Deadlift - 40kg
squat - 40kg
dumbell curls - 12kg
back rows/pulldowns - 45kg
tricep cables - 40kg

Thats should give you a rough indication of my strength at the time.

I then went onto a strict diet consisting of good food. gym 5/7days a week with cardio on the 6th. Waking up at good times etcetc. 5 weeks on these are my current stats.

6ft1 88kg

Bench - 90kg
deadlift - 110kg
squat - 95kg
curls - 20kg
backrow/pulldowns - 90kg
tris - 77kg

Pretty massive gains. I look great, i feel great and would advise the program i'm on to anybody, It's fantastic. Bit costly though. Have pics if you want them

[Rip]

I've lost nearly 3 stone over the last 3 months, purely from not drinking coke, eating chocolate and not ordering takeaways. It was much easier than I expected... now I have the problem of needing to buy nearly all new clothes...

This would probably help too...

I drink about 2 litres of fanta per day and we normally order a takeaway every other day out of convenience (put bairn to bed, can't be arsed to cook, ring takeaway).

@Neo: I tried Atkins years ago so I know how shit it is

So what exactly would I be looking for when I walk into the pharmacy?

I also gather that the main source of feeling full / bloated is drinking shit loads of water?

[NeoCzar]

There are always setbacks. When I broke up with my gf, a couple of months later, after I had thought I was over it, the destructive depression barged into my life, and I spent over a month being continuously high (Heisenberg knows about this because he was my chat buddy on FB whilst I was high ) and in turn consuming tremendous amounts of takeaway. Something like 4-5 large pepperoni pizzas a day, in addition to sandwiches, juices, sodas ..etc. By the end of the month I had added 8 kgs that I lost 2 weeks later. It's a one step backwards two steps forward sort of thing.

I do agree with Zarf that it's something to be maintained, and that's why the vast majority of those "The Greatest Loser" program variety participants relapse in less than 5 years.

It is a lifestyle change, and I gotta say that appreciative looks from women are a great boost too.

Working out from working out differs too. Proper working out (like bodybuilders do) makes it impossible to gain weight unless you're juicing up, no matter how much you eat. Back in the day I ate 3 whole chickens, 12 raw eggs, 2 tuna salads, and 4 protein shakes everyday, working out 4 days a week, and I still lose weight, from 75 to 67. I literally couldn't add weight with all that food because .... well... I trained to the point of failure. Bodybuilders routinely lose consciousness or get very low blood sugar during a workout. Reaching that stage requires you hitting muscles you've never hit before, and perfecting the exercise, which takes at least 6 months of regular gym with good advice. Any gym trainer will tell you (unless you're there to lose weight, and not necessarily develop a physique) to eat whatever you like as long as you work out right.

There are certain things (and this is psychology again) that you must just block out. When I pass by McDonalds or Burger King nowadays, I really look at them like I look at a furniture shop, totally blocking out the possibility of eating their food.

If you turn it into a daily struggle you will eventually lose. You have to just adapt to your new eating style and get used to it.

[NeoCzar]

This would probably help too...

I drink about 2 litres of fanta per day and we normally order a takeaway every other day out of convenience (put bairn to bed, can't be arsed to cook, ring takeaway).

@Neo: I tried Atkins years ago so I know how shit it is

So what exactly would I be looking for when I walk into the pharmacy?

I also gather that the main source of feeling full / bloated is drinking shit loads of water?

Just a regular multi-vitamin-mineral supplement. They're usually used by the elderly and pregnant women who are anemic. Nothing fancy or body-builder type (although all bodybuilders use it).

It will have a chart with the daily vitamin content as recommended by the FDA, and the more fortified by minerals the better, so Zinc and Iron are a plus. But really, they are all the same. It should be around 5-7 quids for a pack that has 30-60 pills, where you take one daily.

As for feeling full, after a while of starving you simply cherish the feeling of being "empty". I feel disgustingly bloated when I eat anything nowadays (and remember, this has been going on for a year or a little more), and can't wait till I feel "light" again. The water and fluids is to simply keep you hydrated, because unlike food, you can't let go of water very long before you end up on a hospital bed

Also, if your body senses a depletion of water reserves, it adapts by water retention, so the counter-productive result would be your face bloating moreso than if you had a big Mac with a large soda.

The problem with a "balanced" diet, is that suppose you reduce your calorie intake to 1000 instead of the recommended 1600-2000 for an adult male. Your body might lose some minimal weight (painfully slowly) but it will adapt to the new intake by spending less energy on activity, which would make you feel less prone to movement and exercise. Starvation is something the body can't adapt to, so it just spends your gut, which is what we want.

Atkin's is a psychological diet as well with the difference that your arteries will be clogged by the age of 40.

A nifty trick is to try and be always on the "cold" side, by not keeping yourself too warm in cold temperatures. Unless you're a body builder, most of your calorie intake is actually spent on something called the Basal Metabolic rate (BMR) which is another way of saying your basic body functions, like maintaining cellular homeostasis, warmth, heart pumping, liver filtering ..etc. You can increase your calorie expenditure by simply getting your body to work harder to maintain a 37 celsius temperature (which it has to) by wearing less heavy clothes in the cold/cool season.

[Asriell]

I lost a couple of stone over a couple of weeks purely from the same kind of regimen as H

I totally transformed my diet. The key to it was eating enough carbs in the morning to be full (toast and eggs was regular) and then burning it off through the rest of the day. For evening meals it was purely just a bit of meat and salad each time

I did this for a few months and lost about 5 stone in total

Problem was that it was too much - I had totally cut out all the food I really like and as such it wasn't sustainable. As soon as I gave in and had a curry then I totally lost the will to keep going and now I've put on even more weight than ever before.

It's about lifestyle and striking a balance. Of particular importance is motivation. All the different diets etc are all mainly bullshit. If you have the motivation and willpower to lose weight then it will happen. All you need is common sense. It's fekkin obvious how to lose weight and eat sensibly. We don't need to be sold any more bullshit by 'so called' nutritionists.

[Asriell]

Just wanted to add that the exercise I used was mainly competitive sport, swimming and cycling. I'm certainly not a gym person and tbh I find people who do weights a bit weird.

[Heisenberg]

This would probably help too...

I drink about 2 litres of fanta per day and we normally order a takeaway every other day out of convenience (put bairn to bed, can't be arsed to cook, ring takeaway).

@Neo: I tried Atkins years ago so I know how shit it is

So what exactly would I be looking for when I walk into the pharmacy?

I also gather that the main source of feeling full / bloated is drinking shit loads of water?

I'm no expert but it sounds like your diet is very similar to how mine was. I replaced all the coke/fanta/etc with fresh orange/apple juice and just have really simple evening meals (piece of pork/chicken/etc, boiled new potatoes, frozen peas), and have chicken+cucumber sandwiches at work from the local deli instead of fried egg+bacon+sausage sandwiches. Shredded wheat/Weetabix instead of coco pops/frosties for breakfast (albeit with a little sugar on them).

Probably not the healthiest diet ever, or the fastest weight loss, but _relatively_ it's a huge difference.

Same thing as Neo with the McDonalds, Burger King etc, I don't even notice them any more.

[Rip]

We don't need to be sold any more bullshit by 'so called' nutritionists.

But I haz this awesome super mega diet used by actors in hollywood that makes you lose 2 stone in 2 days! just pay me the low low cost of $39.95 and I'll tell you this trade secret that only I know because it's that super secret and super mega awesome! BUY NAOW AND GET A POTATO!

As for mcdonalds / burger king I haven't been in one for about 2-3 years now and have no urges when I walk past one (mainly due to price and grease content).

I think I'll pop over to the pharmacy, have a look, buy some water (I've actually been ok replacing it with fanta completely lately) and try it in a realistic approach and have one low cal meal per day and eventually drop it to every other day.

[Heisenberg]

Problem was that it was too much - I had totally cut out all the food I really like and as such it wasn't sustainable. As soon as I gave in and had a curry then I totally lost the will to keep going and now I've put on even more weight than ever before.

Yeah, I've been trying to avoid that... This is the first time in 35 years I've actually tried to change my diet in any way.

My exercise 'regime' consists of walking briskly for two of my 15 minute breaks each day... Hardcore!

[NeoCzar]

Of particular importance is motivation.

Couldn't agree more, and this differs from person to person.

For me a major factor was the fact that my relationship was going downhill, and I knew on some level that I would be "in the market" again.

Also my old friends whom I hadn't seen for a couple of years, not recognizing me, and the fact that I'm not the guy being checked out/smiled at in clubs or bars anymore, was particularly damaging to my ego

I wouldn't know what to tell someone who's been overweight all their lives, because they don't have a "golden age" to look back to like I do.

As for the form of exercise, there's a very important factor most people aren't aware of, and that is your genetic muscle composition.

You have red and white fibers in your skeletal muscles (as opposed to cardiac and smooth muscles that line your viscera and vascular vessels), and their percentages is purely genetic. Red muscle fibers hypertrophy (cells becoming larger) easier and give out a more explosive energy output in 10 secs, but don't have much stamina, and accumulate lactic acid quickly.

White muscle fibers are very high on stamina and a sustained energy/force output, and are more suitable for long-winded exercise like jogging, swimming ..etc, but don't get larger very noticeably.

One way to see what kind of fibers you have on your muscles, is to do a single rep of a major muscle group, using the heaviest weight you can carry once. So an example would be a flat bench press with a barbell. Lets say your max one rep weight is 100 kgs. Then carry 80-85% of that weight after you rest for a few minutes to fully recuperate. If you can carry that weight 1-3 times, then roughly 70% of your muscle is red fibers, and you'd be suited to weight training, which you will enjoy more than jogging. If you can carry it 3-6 times then you have a balance of both fibers (I fall into that group) and you would enjoy and benefit from both cardio and weight training, and you might get a shredded physique, but never have a chance at becoming a professional bodybuilder for example. If you can carry it more than 6-7 times then swimming, jogging, tennis, squash, aerobics ..etc are your calling, and any strenuous weight training is unlikely to get your muscles much larger, and can be painful.

That's why a bodybuilder with quads that can leg press a small car, can never hope to compete with a marathon runner, even if the weight difference between the two isn't very great, in addition to cardio-vascular conditioning of course. One is red, the other is white. That is also why a 100 metre runner is actually very buff, as opposed to the 5-km runner. 100 metres is over in 10 secs, so you need big red muscle mass to give it everything, and they're semi dead by the time they cross the end line.

This post has been edited by NeoCzar: Jul 19 2010, 10:41 AM

[Zarf]

I drank loads of water on my VLCD, always kept a couple of bottles with me and just drank one whenever I started feeling bored or hungry. It was a kind of "habit replacement" like those electric cigarettes. I was getting through around 3-4 litres most days which lead to an annoying amount of toilet visits.
On the plus side always being properly hydrated meant I didn't have a headache for months and my skin looked better.

This post has been edited by Zarf: Jul 19 2010, 10:33 AM

[Proplus]

I've sort of hit that stage in my life that no matter how little I eat, I never seem to lose much weight. Throughout my 20s I was always around the 11.5 stone mark (me being 6ft), now I'm around 14 stones. Eventhough I work in the restaurant (running back and forth, up and down stairs), I need extra exercise to help my diet. In the last 2 months, my staff and I have been doing leaflets drops door-to-door, probably cover an extra 6-7 miles each per day, which has helped bring my weight down to around 13 stones.

[NeoCzar]

I've sort of hit that stage in my life that no matter how little I eat, I never seem to lose much weight. Throughout my 20s I was always around the 11.5 stone mark (me being 6ft), now I'm around 14 stones. Eventhough I work in the restaurant (running back and forth, up and down stairs), I need extra exercise to help my diet. In the last 2 months, my staff and I have been doing leaflets drops door-to-door, probably cover an extra 6-7 miles each per day, which has helped bring my weight down to around 13 stones.

That's rather unusual for the Asian ethnicity, which is good news for you, because it means that your "natural state" is to be slim (unless obesity runs in the family), so any extra weight is due to first world sedentary lifestyle and diet, and not your metabolic parameters.

Your body -like I've said above- adapts quickly to your calorie intake and usual activity and tries to maintain the weight that it has come to consider "normal".

I'm not sure a VLCD would be right for you since your work requires a lot of concentration and activity, I would say hit the gym, hard.

[ballemonster]

10 years ago I was pretty fit.

Ran 10km in 50minutes
Bench press 115kg
Played team handball actively. (it's a rough sport. but you probably haven't heard of it)
etc.

Then when I started working and then got 2 kids things went downhill.. I haven't worked out for 2-3 years, been playing some floor-ball but that's it. Really want to get back into muay thai and weights again, gotta try and find the time, which is not easy.

My problem is not that I don't know how to get fit, I just don't have the time :S

Other interests eat away at my sparse free time. The kids to to bed at 19-20, then walk the dog for a bit, then free time. Which I like to spend some with my wife, and some with my Les Paul.